Head to head: Schapiro and Living Wage Campaign tackle the issues

The Northwestern Living Wage Campaign drew more than 370 students to rally Wednesday in efforts to raise University employee wages to $13.23 an hour. Below, University President Morton Schapiro and NLWC Campaign Coordinator Matthew Fischler, a Weinberg senior, go issue by issue with The Daily.

The living wage for NU employees should be set at $13.23 an hour

Schapiro: To pick $13.23 is bad economics. I know they have economist that signed off on this, but I'm a labor economist. I've worked on these issues. I just don't think it makes logical sense. The federal minimum wage is $7.25. If you multiply that times 40 hours a week times 52 that comes out as 15,000 even. That's the federal minimum wage. Now there are states, many of them, and cities that say $7.25 is too low. $15,000 is below the poverty level depending on where you live, depending on your family structure, etc. The highest I've ever seen is Santa Fe, New Mexico. Their minimum wage is $10 an hour. So 10 times 40 times 52 is $20,500 … $13.23 is 27,500 … So $15,000 is too low so you go to $27,500. Well why don't we pick $15? Why not $17? … I can understand why people want to have a set number, but as an economist, it doesn't make a lot of sense.


Fischler: We're asking for a living wage, which is based on the Illinois Self Sufficiency Standard, which is calculated by the Heartland Alliance. The way this living wage is calculated is based on the average prices of normal goods in the Cook Country area like food, child care, transportation, etc. This wage is calculated specifically to meet the basic needs of any worker and their family. And it's really key to say "basic needs" because it's not a wage in which an individual can save money for retirement, to put their kid through Little League. It's literally the minimum amount a person can make so that they don't have to sacrifice any basic life necessities.


Subcontracted workers are not directly employed by the University

Schapiro: I've always felt that if they're in custodial or dining services, they're serving you, and they look like they work for us. It doesn't matter that they work for a contractor. So I've never found that a compelling argument. If I were a student, and I heard the president say, "Oh they don't work for us," I'd think that was a cop out … Someone in my position might say, "We have 5,000 employees. They're taken care of. Go away." I don't find that compelling because even though you're working for Sodexo or Aramark, they kind of look like they're working for us, and it's our subcontract. So I think that I agree with students who say we have to care about them as well.


Fischler: The heart of our campaign is that we want workers to be fully included in the Northwestern community … For contract employers, even though they're not employed by Northwestern, they work on our campus every day, and they interact with us every day. So we want them to be fully included in the community and have the same kinds of community benefits that Northwestern staff do, like library privileges, Northwestern shuttles, discounts at cultural and sporting events. And that's something we are working with the administration on, and we believe it's a first step in including these workers in our community.


A living wage for all employees would cost students

Schapiro: One of the arguments people make is that if we have to give raises, even if it's not people working directly for us … clearly we have to pass it all on to the students … Room and board are a revenue system. It's supposed to have a balance. It's supposed to break even. That's a reasonable argument, but if I were a student, I'd say, "Well maybe subvene it." There are certain things we do at the University that don't pay for themselves. Even if (room and board) are a revenue center, you allow them to be somewhat in the red. So again to give you good arguments, against me I suppose, if you subvene you say, "Where do you take it from?" But you know, simply if you're willing to pay a higher tuition, room and board, we can do it. But as an economist and as someone who cares about social justice, I don't find that compelling.


Fischler: I don't have the budget in front of me. But I think we can be creative in terms of the ways of the cost of this Living Wage Campaign are shared or even measure in other areas, whether it's some of the sustainability stuff we're doing on campus or in other areas. We'd have to talk more to know specifics. I think there is some leverage because the contract Northwestern has with Sodexo is profitable … Northwestern is kind of in a position to negotiate with Sodexo and say, "We do have your business, but if you want to keep our business, you're going to have to pay your workers these minimum standards." … We know it is possible to fund this without placing significant financial burden on students.


The next step for improving NU worker conditions

Schapiro: I just met with (Vice President for Business and Finance) Gene Sunshine, and we're talking about the things we can do. Maybe we can give really good subsidized parking and have all our staff have free passes. Maybe we can do a range of different benefits. That's our moral responsibility. But I don't really believe the simplicity of $13.23, and there's good and there's evil. The world should be so simple. As someone who has devoted his life to social justice, it bothers me a little to get some nasty e-mails about if I cared about the world from a 20-year-old who's never done anything besides protest outside my window … If it were so easy, I would do it in a second.


Fischler: The reason we are doing this is because we want to hold (Schapiro) accountable to his words … We're trying to create this kind of community, and then we're also trying to uphold him to the rhetoric and the vision he has for this University, too. I don't want him to think we think he's this immoral person who doesn't understand the economic justice or the moral value of this. I think he does … But I think that he should sit back and recognize we are not doing this to either antagonize him or because were naive. We're trying to work and create the kind of community that we both want at this University.


ksalyer@u.northwestern.edu

Photos by Chris Kirk

University President Morton Schapiro and Living Wage Campaign coordinator Matthew Fischler, a Weinberg senior, discuss a living wage.